17:03:13 <jzb> #startmeeting
17:03:13 <cs-meeting> Meeting started Wed Oct 31 17:03:13 2012 UTC. The chair is jzb. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
17:03:13 <cs-meeting> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
17:03:36 <jzb> #chair bhaisaab brettporter chipc ke4qqq noe rohityadav widodh
17:03:36 <cs-meeting> Current chairs: bhaisaab brettporter chipc jzb ke4qqq noe rohityadav widodh
17:03:44 <jzb> #topic starting meeting
17:03:57 <jzb> OK, welcome to another IRC meeting all - and happy Halloween
17:04:10 <jzb> I have my scary music playlist on
17:04:12 <jzb> you know
17:04:12 <jzb> Conway Twitty
17:04:15 <jzb> anyway
17:04:25 <jzb> let's get started
17:05:15 <jzb> bhaisaab: do you have anything to discuss or report?
17:05:17 <chipc> I think he's in as rohityadav today
17:05:17 <rohityadav> 
yes
17:05:18 <rohityadav> jzb: skip, will take turn at R
17:05:20 <jzb> rohityadav: one of these days I'm going to ask why
17:06:07 <jzb> ok
17:06:07 <rohityadav> jzb: in office now, bhaisaab at least logs channel for me
17:06:08 <rohityadav> rohityadav can be offline sometimes 
17:06:10 <jzb> rohityadav: ah. IRC proxy w/IRSSI 
17:06:13 <jzb> anyway
17:06:15 <jzb> moving on
17:06:18 <rohityadav> yes!
17:06:20 <jzb> brettporter: thanks for joining us today
17:06:29 <jzb> brettporter: anything to discuss or report ?
17:10:22 <jzb> OK, we'll move on
17:10:22 <jzb> chipc: anything to discuss or report?
17:10:23 <chipc> a couple of things
17:10:23 <chipc> first, obviously the IPMC vote is happening right now
17:10:24 * jzb cheers
17:10:24 * rohityadav yay!
17:10:25 <chipc> noe voted, but in reality we don't need anyone to respond on that thread, since we already have enough mentors / IPMC members that voted during our project-level vote
17:10:25 <chipc> so, knock on wood, I'll be able to close that vote down on Friday
17:10:26 <noe> \o/
17:10:27 <chipc> now - in terms of release timing (and yes, I'm going to drop a note on the list about this), I'm going to be proposing the following schedule:
17:10:27 <chipc> Friday, IPMC vote closes
17:10:28 <chipc> Immediately after that, I'll publish the release artifacts to the correct svn location
17:10:53 <chipc> Two other things that I'd like to see get done before an announcement though:
17:11:01 <chipc> 1 - get the new site that jzb's working on deployed to i.a.o/cloudstack
17:11:26 <chipc> 2 - redirect cs.o to that new site
17:11:26 <chipc> once the mirrors are up to date, we can edit the download page to point to them
17:11:45 <chipc> and I'd propose (and I think jzb would concur) that we announce next Tuesday
17:12:30 <chipc> again - I'll put that on the dev list today
17:12:30 <jzb> (I would concur)
17:12:31 <chipc> oh - one other thing
17:12:31 <noe> sounds good to me
17:12:38 <chipc> we have an opportunity to update the docs with any last minute changes, and publish them to the site
17:12:38 <chipc> would be good to see that happen
17:12:39 <chipc> that's it
17:13:03 <jzb> OK, thanks chipc
17:13:04 <brettporter> jzb: sorry, missed that earlier - I just dropped in to listen
17:13:40 <edison_cs> meeting is going?
17:13:41 <jzb> #action chipc will send a note to the list to open discussion about release schedule
17:13:41 <jzb> edison_cs: yes
17:13:43 <edison_cs> oh, sorry for the late
17:14:42 <jzb> #chair edison_cs
17:14:42 <cs-meeting> Current chairs: bhaisaab brettporter chipc edison_cs jzb ke4qqq noe rohityadav widodh
17:14:45 <jzb> #action jzb deploy final redesigned site to i.a.o./cloudstack
17:14:45 <jzb> #action jzb redirect cs.org to new site
17:14:54 <jzb> edison_cs: you're just in time
17:14:58 <jzb> anything to discuss or report?
17:15:08 <edison_cs> about 4.0.x release
17:15:20 <chipc> #action $somebody needs to publish the latest docs to the site, including the last minute fixes
17:15:45 <edison_cs> need to decide which commits should we put into 4.0.x
17:15:45 <jzb> chipc: meetbot's going to complain about that
17:15:49 <jzb> 
17:16:19 <jzb> edison_cs or chipc - do we have a timeline for the 4.0.x release?
17:17:03 <edison_cs> btw, for each release, even it's minor release
17:17:15 <edison_cs> do we need to vote?
17:17:17 <chipc> jzb: nope - that's another note I'll send
17:17:19 <chipc> edison_cs: yes
17:17:22 <chipc> every release is official
17:18:00 <jzb> #action chipc to send a note to -dev about 4.0.x release timing
17:18:02 <jzb> chipc: are you opening a discussion about release cycles in general, or just 4.0.x?
17:18:04 <chipc> 4.1.0
17:18:06 <chipc> 4.0.1 would be a bug-fix only release
17:18:07 <chipc> but yes, I'll hit both topics
17:18:13 <jzb> groovy
17:18:34 <edison_cs> chipc: can you also add the note, about which commits we need to put into 4.0.x
17:18:43 <jzb> as far as commits to be put into 4.0.x - that probably should be a separate discussion
17:18:49 <jzb> how are we going to decide what's in and what's not?
17:20:18 <edison_cs> we should discuss it on the mailing list
17:20:19 <chipc> edison_cs / jzb: I'm with you guys
17:20:19 <chipc> will take to the list
17:20:20 <jzb> chipc: that's a lot of discussions you're taking on
17:20:20 <chipc> happy to kick them off
17:20:20 <chipc> I've got the time
17:20:20 <jzb> edison_cs: did you want to bring up the commit topic?
17:20:20 <jzb> OK
17:20:20 <edison_cs> thanks, chipc !
17:20:20 <jzb> thanks chipc
17:20:20 <jzb> edison_cs: any other topics?
17:20:20 <edison_cs> I am working the storage stuff
17:20:22 <edison_cs> I;ll send out a topic about it
17:20:50 <edison_cs> seems people are interested in it now
17:21:15 <jzb> edison_cs: storage stuff?
17:21:15 <edison_cs> storage refactor
17:21:16 <jzb> gotcha.
17:21:26 <edison_cs> make it more extensible
17:21:33 <jzb> #action edison_cs will start discussion on -dev about storage refactoring + making it more extensible
17:21:45 <jzb> edison_cs: I have an old Zip Drive, can I use that?
17:21:45 <edison_cs> EOL
17:22:01 <jzb> edison_cs: thanks!
17:22:03 <edison_cs> jzb: I don't mind if you can add a driver for it
17:22:05 <edison_cs>
17:22:07 <jzb> heh
17:22:15 <jzb> that brings us to me...
17:22:21 <jzb> #topic Website
17:22:43 <jzb> chipc: already brought this up, but I'll go ahead and report
17:22:55 <jzb> so the Web site work is mostly done. I'd hoped to finish it up Monday, but I spent it driving from Harrisburg to St. Louis instead (thanks, Sandy!)
17:23:12 <jzb> Anybody who's interested can take a look at http://dissociatedpress.net/cloudstack/
17:23:34 <rohityadav> cool
17:23:36 <jzb> that's a mostly finished draft, I just have to finish the navigation, add search to the top bar, and then add a few pieces of content
17:23:49 <jzb> then I'll push it to SVN and redirect DNS
17:23:53 <rohityadav> we want what is cloudstack blogs!
17:24:01 <jzb> rohityadav: hang on
17:24:08 <rohityadav>
17:24:19 <jzb> so, we've got that:
17:24:20 <jzb> https://blogs.apache.org/cloudstack/entry/test_entry
17:24:30 <jzb> we have a blog on blogs.apache.org
17:24:48 <jzb> If you are a committer and want access to that, you'll need to ask Infra for a roller account
17:25:08 <jzb> and then I believe noe currently has the permissions to add people to the cloudstack blog specifically
17:25:16 <jzb> noe: if you can add me as an admin, that'd be nifty
17:25:26 <noe> i think you are already
17:25:31 <jzb> noe: also - you may want to double-check your permissions since they had to re-create the blog
17:25:32 <noe> basically people need to request blog accounts from infra
17:25:40 <noe> yeah, do you know why?
17:25:51 <rohityadav> yes, I've added myself; I will be posting few blogs this weekend, some interesting things to share
17:26:02 <jzb> noe: well, I tried to push a post live last week and it just showed something like $content
17:26:09 <noe> interesting
17:26:13 <jzb> so I opened a ticket on Infra and they just recreated it
17:26:16 <jzb> what the cause was, I don't know
17:26:23 <noe> i shouldnt be a blocker for this. people can speak to infra directly
17:26:29 <jzb> noe: ok
17:26:30 <noe> then ask an existing admin to set them up
17:26:33 <noe> i can do that if people request
17:26:39 <noe> tbh i dropped this on the floor with the release stuff
17:26:45 <noe> i was going to post a note to that thread
17:26:49 <noe> i can do that still
17:26:58 <jzb> noe: wait, which note?
17:27:13 <noe> there is a thread where i am asking for people to indicate they want an account
17:27:17 <jzb> ah, OK
17:27:20 <noe> unfortunately, i didnt quite understand the process
17:27:23 <noe> so i was going to follow up on that
17:27:29 <jzb> cool, thanks
17:28:01 <jzb> I would propose (and we can discuss on list) that we only use the CloudStack blog on blogs.apache.org for things like releases, etc. and use individual blogs to talk about individual topics.
17:28:15 <noe> i think that might be a mistake
17:28:25 <jzb> noe: which?
17:28:30 <noe> only using it for releases
17:28:35 <jzb> most of the official blogs only use it for releases
17:28:41 <noe> yeah i think that is a mistake
17:28:49 <noe> the blog is a great oportunity for us to establish ourselves as thoughtleaders
17:28:54 <noe> and for us to highlight great technical content
17:29:02 <noe> they call this content marketing in da biz
17:29:04 <chipc> suggestion: debate this one on the list
17:29:12 <jzb> noe: please, do tell me more about marketing and publishing
17:29:17 <chipc> because the planet software is the other method
17:29:19 <noe> is that sarcastic?
17:29:21 <jzb> noe: as it's a topic I have so little experience in
17:29:26 <jzb> noe: little bit
17:29:26 <noe> okay
17:29:29 <noe> why?
17:29:33 <noe> im just trying to help
17:29:50 <jzb> noe: I only have a bit more than a decade as a tech journalist under my belt
17:29:59 <noe> you could just say that instead of being snarky
17:30:01 <noe> anyway
17:30:07 <noe> having a number of people who blog and evangelise is very beneficial
17:30:13 <noe> and if we have that anyway, then it may be fine
17:30:21 <noe> but if we dont, the official blog might be a good way to build it
17:30:29 <noe> inviting people to post entries, etc. doing content drives
17:30:36 <noe> (btw i think journalism and markeeting are worlds apart)
17:30:36 <jzb> noe: I don't disagree -but doing it under the official blog means they're speaking with the official voice of the project, IMHO
17:30:44 <noe> only if you communicate it in that way
17:30:50 <noe> that is our choice
17:31:21 <jzb> well, we can discuss on list - but the blog is /cloudstack and the way it's laid out the byline is pretty minimal
17:31:43 <jzb> AFAIK, we don't have a lot of leeway in modifying it to make the byline more substantial
17:31:44 <noe> that does not preclude us from allowing members of our community to blog as individuals
17:31:57 <noe> and to use it as a platform on which to post technical content relevant to our market
17:32:24 <brettporter> noe: I agree with jzb. Blogs on there should typically be reviewed by the committers before posting (or be agreed that someone is posting on the topic). The planet is a better way to do what you want.
17:32:27 <noe> i am coming at this from having seen how big an impact this can have on a project
17:32:38 <chipc> one of you guys should raise this on the list, so we can discuss it there…
17:32:42 <noe> brettporter: i was thinking that the only people who would post would be committers anyway
17:32:46 <jzb> chipc: you're right
17:32:54 <jzb> #action jzb raise blog topic on list
17:32:56 <noe> brettporter: but that we'd encurrage our comitters to post in the first place
17:33:09 <brettporter> noe: yes, but as a group, not an individual
17:33:19 <noe> i disagree
17:33:41 <noe> it is a wrongheaded to think that we cannot allow individuals to speak as individuals
17:33:49 <jzb> brettporter: is there any official apache policy on this, or is it more established convention?
17:33:54 <noe> not that i am aware of
17:34:16 <noe> i have seen, FIRST HAND, what happens to an apache project when its people stop evangelising
17:34:29 <jzb> noe: nobody's saying we don't evangelise
17:34:30 <jzb>
17:34:30 <noe> most communities will find themselves with one or two prolific people
17:34:45 <noe> i am suggesting that our official blog would be a good platform for some of that
17:34:52 <jzb> the only question is where people post.
17:34:56 <noe> it is wrongheaded to think we cant post to it as individuals
17:34:56 <jzb> but again - let's take this to the list
17:35:26 <jzb> next topic I had
17:35:58 <brettporter> jzb: I'd need to check if there's any rules about what goes on b.a.o, just convention. I expect it is up to the project to decide
17:35:59 <jzb> after the Apache CMS site stuff is squared away - I want to do some work cleaning up the wiki
17:35:59 <jzb> brettporter: thanks
17:36:42 <jzb> actually, I'd like several of us to do some work cleaning up the wiki - but I'm happy to be a big part of it
17:36:43 <noe> plenty of organisations have staff posting as individuals. like i said, it's called content marketing
17:36:53 <jzb> so next week, I'd like to spend a few days having a "hack fest" cleaning up the wiki
17:37:05 <jzb> any thoughts? Best days to do this?
17:37:42 <jzb> once we have made sure we have all the desirable wiki content moved over from the old wiki, we can turn off wiki.cloudstack.org so people aren't going to the old crusty content.
17:38:11 <jzb> and while we're waiting for comments - noe, I do apologize for being a bit snarkier than intended earlier.
17:38:52 <noe> i am struggling with an apache project that doesn't have a platform any more
17:39:07 <chipc> jzb: Tuesday looks good for me
17:39:09 <noe> and i work for a company that places heavy emphasis on individual content on its corporate blog
17:39:23 <jzb> It's HTTP, right? Those guys get no attention.
17:39:26 <noe> and i can see the potential marketing opportunity here
17:39:31 <noe> both for this project and my other one
17:39:46 <jzb> chipc: OK
17:39:51 <noe> http? no. couchdb
17:40:10 <noe> having a planet doesn't magically give you a platform
17:40:12 <jzb> noe: sorry, that was just me being silly.
17:40:24 <noe> nor does it magically encourage people to write
17:40:36 <noe> you cant fix social problems with technological solutions
17:40:52 <jzb> I'll go ahead and bring up the hack fest on the list too, unless anyone else says otherwise - I'll start on Tuesday
17:40:52 <noe> my goal is to provide a platform, and drive contribution
17:41:03 <jzb> #action bring hack fest idea to list.
17:41:17 <jzb> #action jzb bring wiki hack fest to list.
17:41:20 <jzb> that's it from me.
17:41:34 <jzb> looks like kdamage is the next in line of succession
17:41:48 <jzb> kdamage: anything to report or discuss?
17:42:05 <kdamage> no I'm good, same old stuff
17:42:29 <jzb> ok, thanks!
17:42:44 <jzb> I suspect he's just lurking, but I'll ask anyway
17:42:51 <jzb> ke4qqq: anything to discuss or report?
17:44:10 <jzb> OK
17:44:20 <jzb> noe: you're next - anything to discuss or report?
17:46:25 <jzb> OK
17:46:33 <jzb> rohityadav: anything to discuss or report?
17:46:42 <rohityadav> yes
17:46:47 <rohityadav> to report, I've made the cli
17:46:53 <rohityadav> it's called cloudmonkey
17:46:59 <rohityadav> but we're open to names
17:47:04 <kdamage> awesome
17:47:08 <rohityadav> will be committing in 5 mins
17:47:20 <rohityadav> please take your fav monkey for a drive
17:47:33 <jzb> rohityadav: is that the name of the project or the name of the command?
17:47:40 <rohityadav> and help me fix it; auto generated, 300lines, pep8, more you may read on commits
17:47:47 <rohityadav> jzb: name of the tool
17:47:52 <rohityadav> it will be in tools/cli
17:47:58 <rohityadav> for developers and users
17:48:09 <jzb> rohityadav: groovy - that sounds awesome.
17:48:15 <chipc> rohityadav: that's pretty cool
17:48:24 <chipc> my ops team will probably love you for it
17:48:35 <rohityadav> and nice terminal hacks, all pure python , autocompletions, shell, etc.
17:48:36 <techpubs> How is it documented?
17:48:52 <rohityadav> one feature lacking is reverse search, ps. it's got history
17:48:57 <rohityadav> techpubs: doc strings
17:49:05 <rohityadav> but I'll add something soon
17:49:39 <rohityadav> okay I'm done
17:50:13 <jzb> rohityadav: thanks, and thanks!
17:50:29 <rohityadav> alright committed:see 2ceaa3911e792dbeb6c40dfb70961008a01f7e3c
17:50:33 <jzb> #action rohityadav will be committing a CLI tool called cloudmonkey
17:50:46 <jzb> techpubs: anything to discuss or report?
17:50:51 <rohityadav> mvn -P developer install; cd tools/cli/cloudmonkey; python cloudmonkey.py
17:50:58 <rohityadav> jzb: done!
17:51:19 <jzb> rohityadav: your git-fu was faster than my note-taking...
17:51:28 <rohityadav> for users, pip or easy_install cloud monkey (will update to pypi after some stabilisations )
17:51:43 <rohityadav> more like monkey-fu
17:51:57 <chipc> techpubs: see my note about last minute changes to the docs… we can rebuild / deploy to the project website if you want to pull in some last changes
17:52:29 * rohityadav alright folks, got to go home, will post a screencast for cloudmonkey and some docs
17:52:30 <techpubs> Yep. Chip et al, thanks for the review and filing all the bugs on the docs, Edison also made some nice comments
17:53:09 <techpubs> Joe, thanks for beefing up the install. People near me who are testing install find the info much more complete now.
17:53:25 <chipc> techpubs: sure, and do you think we can publish an updated version on Monday?
17:53:35 <chipc> out of the master branch?
17:53:36 <techpubs> Same to others who helped on that.
17:54:08 <jzb> a lot of hands on that.
17:54:25 <jzb> I've got David's procedure on publishing the docs, so if we have a significantly updated version to publish I can take that.
17:54:47 <jzb> the only question is how much the docs change between now + then
17:54:52 <techpubs> Gavin has very sportingly converted a large swath of "optional install" info into XML, I just need to click "ship it" on that review unless someone else has done so.
17:55:42 <chipc> and Radhika has 3 reviews pending as well
17:55:42 <jzb> techpubs: I haven't reviewed it, but I can give you a second set of eyes if you need
17:55:42 <techpubs> jzb: Thanks for being the backup doc publisher with David's procedure – is the procedure just up on the wiki somewhere?
17:55:43 <jzb> techpubs: not yet
17:55:54 <jzb> techpubs: I've got to run through it myself once and then I'll write up the doc + put it up.
17:56:09 <jzb> I'll probably put it on the main site rather than the wiki, though, since it's not likely to change a lot.
17:56:10 <techpubs> Radhika put 3 more reviews up since I met with her (quick math) 17 hours ago? Wowser.
17:56:33 <chipc> https://reviews.apache.org/r/7804/
17:56:33 <chipc> https://reviews.apache.org/r/7803/
17:56:34 <chipc> https://reviews.apache.org/r/7802/
17:56:49 <techpubs> Chip & everyone, I do very much appreciate having all eyes on the doc reviews.
17:57:18 <jzb> #link https://reviews.apache.org/r/7802/
17:57:21 <techpubs> I don't feel like I need to be a gatekeeper on that. We seem to have some very good reviewers...
17:57:28 <jzb> #link https://reviews.apache.org/r/7803/
17:57:34 <jzb> #link https://reviews.apache.org/r/7804/
17:57:43 <techpubs> ...and if anybody misses something, then we catch it on a later reading and fix it. It all seems to work.
17:57:44 <cloudbot> techpubs: Error: "..and" is not a valid command.
17:57:54 <chipc> heh
17:58:23 <techpubs> I keep forgetting that ".." at the start of a line confuses the cloudbot.
17:59:06 <techpubs> All I wanted to report was thanks for the attention to docs, and please do continue. I haven't fixed all the bugs since last time we chatted.
17:59:18 <jzb> techpubs: thanks.
17:59:29 <jzb> and with that - up next, widodh
17:59:34 <jzb> widodh: anything to discuss or report?
17:59:48 <jzb> #topic previous topic was docs
18:00:00 <jzb> #topic widoh has the floor
18:01:08 <jzb> Ok, I guess widodh is elsewhere
18:01:19 <jzb> that's everybody, I think
18:01:25 <jzb> and we're 1+ hours
18:01:35 <jzb> so - anything else, otherwise I'll go ahead and close it out
18:01:55 <chipc> thanks jzb
18:02:04 <jzb> OK, that's a meeting folks - thanks again
18:02:15 <jzb> just FYI - I'm not going to plan a meeting the Wednesday before Thanksgiving
18:02:29 <jzb> #endmeeting
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